Matt Steffanina breaks down why creators should have an online platform
From the basic top 8 on Myspace to Facebook Groups that you can only join privately We've all been part of a community on social media. Through the years the social media sites let creators create flourishing communities in both private and in public comments.
However, with a growing number of issues that social media has been unable to fix, it is losing its place as a community building tool and manager it once was. This is why creators and business owners across the globe are starting to see its inefficiencies in this regard.
The Facebook outage of 2021 may be to blame for this initial change in attitudes. A short six-hour period when the platform was down led small businesses and creators alike to lose access to their audience and website traffic, causing widespread revenue loss. There have been reports of losses up as $5,000 in dollars.
In order to understand the importance of hosting a community off of social media, we sat down with the online community master himself--Matt Steffanina, world-renowned choreographer and owner and founder of the DNCR Academy.
Since starting his YouTube channel in 2009, Matt has grown a relatively small fan base of 30 million fans across all platforms. The popular dancer is known to be a part of stars like Taylor Swift, Jason Derulo, and Meghan Trainer, not to mention his appearances on TV shows such as So You Think You're a Dancer.
Through his YouTube dance tutorials and in-person classes, Matt formed a tight-knit group of dancers who were passionate, but when the pandemic struck and the #IRL classes stopped, YouTube simply wasn't cutting it as a way for him to engage with his fans and earn a living. This is when he turned to online courses as well as an online community to bring lasting value to his audience and create an income-generating business.
Take a look at the Q&A with Matt to find out the ways he's built a wildly successful business and online community--and why he believes it's the key to creators owning their destiny.
Note: The responses were lightly edited to improve clarity.
Give us a quick summary of your identity and the things you're doing.
Hello, my name's Matt Steffanina, and I'm a choreographer and music producer in L.A. However, the past 12 years of my existence were mostly dance and choreography. I started in the industry working with artists, but all along the way I built my YouTube account, sharing videos about my classes, my personal life as well as my performances. Basically, following along with a vlog format. One of the most difficult aspects of being a dancer, especially 10 years ago is that you were always relying on your agent as well as the dancers to offer opportunities. There was no method to generate opportunities as an artist. Therefore, in my early years, I found myself waiting at the end of the line for an opportunity to be auditioned. In the beginning, [YouTube] was a way for me to be productive, and continue learning new skills as well as to advertise my dance career. I didn't think I could have imagined it would do what it did. It was a time when I increased my number of subscribers, which seemed like very impressive. From it, I ended being offered opportunities to work with Ja Rule and Taylor Swift, and Meghan Trainer.
The other thing I was really passionate about was teaching. At the start, I created a second [YouTube] channel named the Dance Tutorials Live, where people could learn how to dance. I built a following of dancers all around the world. That actually became the most enjoyable part of everything that I've accomplished is hearing the stories of my students' successes. They're truly incredible as, at the time, I was just making tutorials in my local studio using my tripod. I was unaware that I could make an impact at all and it's been an incredibly challenging journey to put it mildly.
Did you foresee your YouTube channel evolving into the kind of thing it is today? Did you plan to take the channel to the level you have today?
It's not possible that one could have predicted the way it did. The first time I uploaded a video, it was from Virginia before my move into L.A., and I wanted to find ways to get inspiration and connect with other dancers. When I first started, which was 14 years ago I was among the very first dancers to join the platform. I couldn't have imagined the changes that would occur. Today, the channel boasts thirteen million users and 3 billion views. My first video was released and became viral, I was able to remember people commenting from other countries, and the concept of someone viewing my video from a different nation was a mystery to me. I couldn't comprehend it and yet it's now the norm with me performing tours all over the world, due to the internet and being able to get my dancing out there through the internet.
Take us on a little piece of your timeline. Tell us, what blew up the first time? Was it YouTube? Was it your career?
People always think that success within the mainstream and Hollywood business will result in an online success, but it actually converts less than you would think. The shows I participated in were the Tonight Show, So You Think You're Good at Dance, The Amazing Race, and more--I had a number of traditional television opportunities, but they weren't converting to long-term results. They were short-term opportunities, however, they were amazing.
What really gave me the long-term success in my career and the ability to still be doing this more than a decade later, is establishing a network.
The group really grew out of my dance lessons, which was not my intention, but it was the most smart thing I did; being a great teacher and great teacher in the field as well as pushing the group forward is more difficult to do than just being a great dancer. It was really my work in the form of tutorials and teaching others on the web that made me build a solid community, which is still strong until today.
Are you able to take us through the road to launching DNCR Academy? When did it turn into an actual business for you?
I created DNCR Academy right at the beginning of the pandemic. It was something I had wanted to pursue for quite a long time for a number of reasons. It's a subscription-based platform where people can learn dance instructions. It's a more upscale experience than my YouTube content. On YouTube the content I upload is] a little inconsistently, and the quality is not always the highest. It's not possible to invite numerous guests or even teachers. However, a large portion of dancers are enjoying the YouTube tutorials, and they're looking for additional training. Therefore, I came up with DNCR Academy for the people who are more focused. It allows me to recruit great instructors, such as Bollywood dancing, shuffling, or dance fitness teachers; styles that I'd never normally use on my YouTube channel. But on the platform of [DNCR Academy] is completely normal and truly amazing to present a wide range of different styles to our students. In the early days of COVID, I knew I couldn't travel and had the opportunity to devote my time the project, and so we set aside some time and built out the platform on . That was June 2020. Then it's been 3 amazing year. I thought we had an extremely strong and supportive community on YouTube, but this took the most powerful of this solid community and put the people in the middle of a bubble. There is a lot of support for one another. They not only have this support group that's studying with other people around the globe They also have an emotional network of people who are challenging one another. It's just become an extremely positive aspect of my life, and, I believe, for all dancers at DNCR as well.
Could you provide more information about the nature of the community as well as the reasons behind starting DNCR? The community existed prior to DNCR Academy, or did it become part of it? Do you have any idea of it being an integral factor to the Academy's success?
I was really afflicted by it with COVID. It seems like a lot of individuals experienced it. It was hard to stay motivated. The process was challenging to establish a routine because you're stuck inside the home and aren't able to access anything. Dance in particular is something that's a communal activity. People do dance on their individual level, but the part that I enjoy about dancing is the feeling of being in a dance studio with my fellow dancers and the enthusiasm that goes with it. If all of that goes off, it's hard to find motivation, even as choreographer. It was hard for me to get the motivation I needed to keep going, so I thought that if I'm going through the same thing, it's likely that someone else who is experiencing the same issues and may gain from a community that is tight-knit. The community already existed as a result of the YouTube tutorials. However, like I mentioned, there was no consistency. To get great at anything, I believe the number most important thing in dance is consistency in your dance training. The community allowed us to have regular challenges every month, which I think is the best aspect we could have done at DNCR. The community isn't just about uploading videos and videos, it's about focusing on a single thing we're all going to do with each other. We're all working on this routine and will post our videos by the deadline. This is where we got our motivation; the excitement when you see all the other members posting videos as well as the interesting or even constructive feedback that came from that. is about being an active participant in the community, and actually encouraging each other to grow, which I think is the most hard to accomplish on YouTube since it felt that all of us were doing this [the tutorials] independently. The community allowed us to all be in this together. It is a huge change in my own way as a choreographer as well as for students to be capable of learning consistently.
Have you heard any stories of customers from your neighborhood that stand out to you? What individual in the group has made an impact on you?
One of my favorite clients is a man named Ray. He's located in Washington D. C. He's a lawyer, and started dancing in his 40's. He would come home every working day with his suit of lawyer and make the table out of the way so that he could practice the hip-hop routines and then he'd end up dancing with his kids. They produced a variety of videos, especially over COVID and learning routines. He ended up going to the Disney Channel show and won the show. The guy here aged 40 was the only person who had never attended a dance class in his entire life, found his passion in the community and became one of the most inspirational people to our members. I think this type of success is really important to highlight because I also started from nothing. I didn't start dancing until 18 years old, but most people don't see that and most of the time, they have seen me on stage alongside stars and on music videos. It's harder to comprehend my struggles I faced early in my career. However, when you look at those who are currently traversing the processalong with you, and witness how they come out on the other side and have the most amazing adventure, it's so powerful. It really moved all of us in our community. There are plenty of stories like that, but Ray was a really special one.
Do you make use of your social media and community customers to experiment with new ideas or new products that you're considering for your business?
One of the things that we're working on constantly is the way we can help more people. How do we reach the most users? There are a lot of dancers out there who would like to master the skill is pretty small. We want to offer the type of instruction on our platform that allows someone to get to an elite level. But we also are focused on making it more and easier for those who just wants to master some routines here and there, those who want to go to the club and be confident. Plus, we're doing a lot of stuff that deal with fitness through dance. I used to be an exercise instructor and am convinced that dancing is one of the most effective means to keep healthy both mentally and physically. There's even a wedding class because I receive many requests to choreograph weddings, but I, unfortunately, lack the time to do it and so this course will take you through everything you need to learn. We're working to make it more accessible to all the requests I've had in the past, and I've always said if I had the time and energy to accomplish this that it would be wonderful and would help many people. We're now trying to find the time to offer these courses.
Can you give us an overview of how your strategy on social media is like today? How has it changed since the first time you started using YouTube?
The platform has seen a significant change over the past ten years, like multiple generations of YouTube as well as social media in general. At first it was not a competitive platform and I only uploading video from my class. It was that simple. After that, I began to realize the power of video and the connection with creators. I began vlogging behind-the scenes content and it was successful between 2016 to 2019. Then, we started taking on more challenges, like the ability to learn a routine in just only ten minutes. These were really successful.
When COVID hit in 2020, we began see success with TikTok and other short-form media. The world changed drastically after. I'd say that the majority of the dance viewership moved to short form, TikTok in particular, because dancing was so well-known in the area. There was still content on YouTube however, a large portion of my strategies were centered on short-form videos like fifteen-second dances, instead of 45- to minute-long dances.
What's interesting about social media, which people do not comprehend unless you've lived for several generations of it is that there's never going to be a solution which will work for the rest of time--because regardless of the field that you're in, when you discover something that works and is successful, then everyone is going to copy it, and this is what happened to dances. Dance class videos started exploding and social media was flooded with dance instructors sharing their dance classes. So, then I had to figure out what's my next move. This was also copied. There's always a challenge similar to any other profession where you have to keep reinventing and innovate and develop new and innovative strategies. One method to discover the ideas that are successful is to throw darts at the board. A majority of the ideas won't work however, that's the way to come up with the concept that is loved by the majority of people. It's difficult to know that's why we adopt the mindset of if I have some idea I just run with it. Let's try this, and if the idea does not work then good. Try something different. This is the best advice I can give anyone who is trying to create content. Be patient and don't assume simply because it didn't succeed the first time, that it won't be successful the next or even third time. Sometimes, you need to modify your idea or mold it until the idea suddenly happens.
It's a good way to get into something we did not discuss that is social media algorithms. What role have algorithms played into your strategy? Did they affect your ability to connect with your customers?
If you've had the pleasure of using Instagram will know that it's the most obvious there. I can remember an instance that I had the opportunity to publish a flyer for a tour that might receive 100,000, 200 likes and hundreds of feedback since it was shown to all of my 3.9 million followers. However, if I shared that flyer tomorrow, it would likely get only 10percent of the engagementas the algorithm has changed. So you have to get creative.
Instead of a brochure now the video is a dance where the dance is happening, city names are popping on the screen and viewers can click to the caption for more. It's up to you come up with different strategies to work within the algorithms, since it is the case that at the end the day, it's impossible to influence it. So we watch a lot of things [metricsregarding time retention. YouTube is shifting from being the search engine and has become an ad-hoc click-through platform. Do your title and thumbnail strong enough to get people's attention? It's possible to create one of the best videos in the world and if the thumbnail and title aren't grabbing people, the video will fail. If viewers watch for the first 10 seconds of a video and then they click away from it, YouTube is going to tell you that everybody is loving your thumbnail, however the video is not performing, so we won't display it to your fans.' And, that's exactly how the algorithms operate in the present. The strategies have become more about concepts. I am pretty sure that we'll be able to make interesting content and great videos, but if the video is rapidly learning to perform a certain routine it is possible to find a million possibilities to pack the title and thumbnail plus the length of the video , as well as the style of the video. All of this can affect content success. It was my experience that I averaged 30 million views per video for about two years. That's insane. For people who are aware about the monetization issue due to concerns with copyrights in music, I was not in a position to make money from the videos. However, as far as increasing my audience I was able to do it, the results were insane. So things have definitely shifted from that time a bit particularly with TikTok and Instagram dominating so much of the market part.
Because you mentioned the possibility of monetization, did it at all impact your desire to launch DNCR Academy, or was the sole purpose of moving offline from the internet?
When the focus changed to YouTube to split into TikTok and Instagram and Instagram, the numbers across the board on YouTube decreased, which was the main way that I was funding the tutorials, and all of that was via and monetization...
During COVID, people wanted more and more [content], but there wasn't as many monetization opportunities within the channel. It was enough to make it scaleable, and so that was one thing that I loved about DNCR. Now, we have members who pay an annual fee for membership so that we are able to collect these money and invest them in new and improved courses and production. It's basically all the things that I wanted to achieve which YouTube monetization wasn't providing enough of a stream of income to be able to achieve. It was therefore a great way financially to be able to expand the content of my tutorials as well as the platform as well as to offer students what they were asking for.
How can you cope with burnout associated with all of social media's creation of content?
It's not like I'm that old, but when it comes to social media, I've been there from the beginning of time. It's amazing how many generations have gone to an end, and the reasons why people become exhausted is because of several factors. I believe they set the bar and their agenda to be a bit too ambitious and heavy at the start. In particular I recall a time around 2016 to 2017 , when my buddies decided to create every day video blogs. And for anyone who has tried daily vlogging, it's torture. It's a lot of work of editing, filming and concepting daily is almost impossible. The channel I've had always kept with a couple of uploads per week. Something that I could actually manage. I was sure I was on the road. I made sure that I had breaks. If there wasn't an amazing tune that was released one week or I was not feeling motivated to choreograph, I canceled my class. I was certain that the content creation was something that I could accomplish regularly, which has helped me maintain my longevity.
One thing I've implemented to avoid burnout is to set realistic goals for myself. I think that at the beginning, when you're beginning out, it's better to focus on just one of two or three platforms. Keep it simple. For YouTube you can upload two times a week, and then you can edit that content it to a shorter form to post it on Instagram as well as TikTok. Be able to handle it. It's much better to build a little bit slower, but still have that spark of energy and the drive to continue creating content five to 10 years from now, then go really hard for a year, then you'll burn out and eventually, you'll fall off. This is about being consistent. It's a game that will last for a long time, even though it feels as if things are moving so fast.
Are you able to offer any other tips for creators looking to utilize social media to increase customers to their websites or products, or maybe creating their own?
It's the most difficult thing to figure out if you were in your viewers, or your customer's shoes, what would inspire you to leave a platform and join the subscription model or course. There are instances we think "I'll just do this or the other' and think about it through our own perspective. This is why I take a lot of surveys. I ask my fans regularly what kind of course you wish to follow in the near future or which one would you feel the most enthusiastic about. There are times when I'm thinking that they'd love to choreograph this awesome dance that is difficult and complicated, and they're like 'Look, Bro, I'm just looking for some moves that I can bust out in a celebration.' And I'm thinking 'Oh, great this week, let's learn moves you can bust out in a dance party. It's great to just get in the shoes of others.
The other thing too is providing value. If you can provide value first with no expectation of anything in return or asking for something in exchange building relationship, trust and community, then when you do offer something that's a paid program or offer it already has that confidence. The value you've provided is already there, and made your customers' life so much easier by your offerings which they're happy to join in and become involved in it. I think sometimes we commit the error of seeking to make a sale too early without building the customer relationship. And that's one of the great aspects of social media: you have the opportunity to stay in touch with your followers throughout the day in whatever way, be it dancing tutorials or sharing your day-to-day life, while also building relationships with them, creating a sense of community and then being like 'Oh, by the way, if you've loved your work and you're happy with it, let's see if we go a step further. This is an simple transition to make instead of meeting you out of the gate and trying to throw the group away.
A lot of creators in this field believe that the only way to make money is through brand and affiliate-type deals on social networks and you've proven them not to be the case. What advice would you give young creators about expanding their revenue streams?
Yeah, brands and affiliate marketing are one piece of the puzzle. The monetization aspect is the other component to the piece. But ideally, you want to have an element from social media platforms which also generate income, because, at the end of the day it is impossible to know what algorithm or rules alter. This is something I've learned through the years since there have been times that I earned the majority of my money through YouTube as well as getting the bulk of my earnings from live events and touring in other times, when I made the bulk of my money from TikTok and Instagram, and now, it's . In different phases of my career, that factor has switched numerous times. even if I put all my money in one place, and I was just looking forward to brand partnerships or YouTube to change their algorithms to allow me to make more money, I would have been stuck. had to stay.
Build a community and start the process of moving your members off social platforms to a subscription service, for example, where you are in charge of your content and the your community. Now, you don't have to depend on an algorithm to provide your community the content you have. The content is available in DNCR and users can get access to anytime they want. This gives power back to the creators--things are shifting quickly and it's becoming more difficult than ever to rely on brand deals and monetization in the absence of knowing where the social media platforms will take you next.
Could you explain to us about the part it been in helping you be in control of and take ownership of your destiny as a creator?
This gave us to place video content that is safe and the rules remain the same. This is my opinion as the top thing. As I mentioned earlier that there was a period where I had 30 million viewers per clip on YouTube. But now, with perhaps MrBeast and a couple of others, it's nearly impossible with just 13 million users. The majority of them are getting my contents. It's crucial that you, when building an online community, get the subscribers to a place where you are able to use them as well as be able to access your content regularly. In a simple sense such as an email list and a text-based list are excellent, but really having them within a community off of social media platforms is the most powerful way to stay in touch as well as to build a the passive income of a creator, especially if you're doing something like the subscription. It's a great method to ensure that you've got your contacts within one spot where you can speak to your friends, and that they are able to contact them, but also to earn an ongoing stream of income.
What is one piece of advice you would give to an entrepreneur who is just starting out on the right track?
I'd recommend that you do a lot of research on your subject. Before you ever upload a single piece of content on TikTok, go and watch the content for a whole month on Tiktok. It is possible to tinker with your ideas and begin creating content, however, I've seen a lot of time wasted due to people not doing the research first. You love fitness and want to start an online fitness business Find the top ten individuals in the industry on social media, watch ten hours of their content, and get an understanding of why it works and develop your strategy for content starting there.
Now, there's more data than you've experienced, particularly via YouTube and TikTok, so the answers are all there. There's no need to create a new wheel completely and perform a fitness workout nobody's ever had before, is it? However, you must find a way to do it in your personal style and in your own unique voice. And, you can do that by researching people who you admire, and taking the most valuable things they have to say about themselves, adding in the stuff you've created creating a content strategy around that. However, I believe the need to accept the fact what you're not aware of. It's exactly what I'm doing currently. Every year, at least, I take a few days where I act like I'm not a professional while I look. What do the children on TikTok who are just 14 years old and blowing up doing differently that we OGs in the industry aren't understanding? I can think that some dance is silly or whatever it is, however there's a purpose why people are identifying with it. I have to know why this is so that I can continue to evolve myself, not only creatively, but also for my business. Putting a lot of time in the study is essential in the process of developing your content strategy. And when you've finally got your strategyin place, it's up to you to work hard.
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The creation economy is expected to witness a surge in online communities in 2023. Social networks are also aware and are responding with developing communities of their own.
But as Matt said, in order for creators to be able to reach their target audience in a meaningful way and build an income that is passive, they must to move their audience away from social media.
"Brands and affiliate marketing " are one piece of the piece. Monetization is another piece. However, it is best to be able to take advantage of platforms on social networks that are offering a source of income since, at the end of your day, it's impossible to be aware of when rules or algorithms will be changed. This is something I've learned through the years since there was a time when I was making most of my income via YouTube or TikTok, and now, it's ."
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